Going to just throw something out there right now.
Men are not the enemy.
There is no monolithic entity out to ‘get us;’ Team Woman, I mean. There’s no conspiracy sitting up on top of a hill somewhere figuring out ways to get women like me to wear short shorts like I am today in order to make the rest of womanity feel bad. (Or give men an excuse to rape or even catcall.)
There’s a fucked-up system that was created and sustained for thousands of years by subconscious drives and fears (yeah, I’m getting Freudian, deal) and yes, it was and has been sustained by keeping women doing domestic work, having sex when and how men said, and generally having no rights. It has also been sustained on the backs of a worker class, and on the backs of people of color or other groups designated as not-worthy.
But it’s stratified society in ways that hurt men too. Even white men.
Part of the goal of feminism, other than the goal I quoted the other day to “open up definitions and identities,” is to liberate all of us from constrictions placed on us by gender. It is also to revalue those things generally gendered feminine, and to allow men to have those characteristics and take part in those activities too. Not because we need male approval to make our activities worthwhile, but because it will make the world better for ALL people.
I get caught up in the idea that men are the enemy too. I doubt the motives and sincerity of male friends all the time, simply because they’re male. And you know, that idea isn’t new. It’s one that was drilled into my head way before I knew the word “feminism.” It’s created by the same things that created patriarchy and kept women treated as subhumans. Divide and conquer. Divide us from each other, make women into lesser beings or monsters, and by doing so also make men into monsters.
The creation of monsters in our own minds is (you will well know if you’re a regular reader here) a fascination of mine. And it’s so easy to see it happen within feminism as well. Not only the pro-porn sellout to the patriarchy strawmonster that we see discussed below, but the Male Monster.
Yes, all men are potentially capable of rape. Yes, this leads to women being scared and thus men having more control and power. Does this mean that all men actually are rapists, and actually enjoy benefiting from a system where women are kept scared of rape?
No.
So, I still hold to what I said earlier about men and feminism: Listen more than you speak. But I have to remind myself and everyone around me sometimes: men are not the enemy. Feminism should liberate us all.
“to allow men to have those characteristics and take part in those activities too. Not because we need male approval to make our activities worthwhile, but because it will make the world better for ALL people.” YES! i completely agree with this. gender stereotypes and roles limit women and men both. Liberating (to use your word) us from these roles will be benefitial for all of us.
“Yes, all men are potentially capable of rape.” I don’t really understand or agree with this. Why are all men potentially capable of rape? Aren’t all women then potentially capable of rape too? All people for that matter? Everyone can be “potentially capable” i don’t think that says much… i guess i don’t understand this sentiment much… and i’ve been reading it a lot lately… it’s starting to make me really sad to think the feminist movement identifies with this statement as much as i’ve seen it lately in various posts.
You are right. All PEOPLE are potentially capable of rape.
I don’t believe in drawing a line that says ’some men are monsters and other men are The Good Guys’ really, even though I do believe that the men of my acquaintance would never rape someone.
What I mean to mention here is that yes, like most women, I drive around the block if a man I don’t know is on my street late at night and I’m alone. I think twice about walking to the train alone at night, in places that men would probably not think twice about going, and let’s face it, the reason is fear of rape. We’re not as likely as men to get murdered, and getting mugged isn’t really the fear.
The reason I used the phrase “potentially capable” rather than “capable” is precisely because it doesn’t say much. It doesn’t illustrate much to harp on and on like certain feminist types do about how all men are potential rapists.
I believe simultaneously that all people are capable of horrific actions–that there are not ‘evil’ people who do bad things and ‘good’ people who do good things–and that there are many things that I could never do.
It does no good to make men into monsters, was my point.
thanks for explaining that - it makes much more sense to me in this way.
“I doubt the motives and sincerity of male friends all the time, simply because they’re male. And you know, that idea isn’t new. It’s one that was drilled into my head way before I knew the word “feminism.” It’s created by the same things that created patriarchy and kept women treated as subhumans. Divide and conquer. Divide us from each other, make women into lesser beings or monsters, and by doing so also make men into monsters.”
YES, this. For a while in my radical days (daze?) I doubted men too. Since then I’ve steadily come to the point where it utterly flabbergasts me that some women will confess to man-hating, as if it gives them feminist creds far beyond those of us ordinary mortals, who date the slimy worms. (Except, wait, read on and you find that she does too. Wow, do I feel sorry for her boyfriends.)
Sure, saying you feel pain and anger is totally fine, and I get that. I even get the generalizing, too, though I don’t like it. But I totally don’t get how this is supposed to be snazzy and feminist, simply because women’s anger has been suppressed. It’s true that women’s anger has been, yeah, but that doesn’t make hating half the human race feminism.
Especially given that good feminism recognizes intersectionality anyway. The minute you do that, you see that, horror and shock, many, many men are oppressed too. So why the fuck should you hate them, or feel good that you do if you can’t stop yourself?
Also, is it just me or does it really seem that this “I can hate men f I wanna” thing is even more prevalent among heterosexual women? It reminds me weirdly of… self hating gay folk, in an odd way: “I don’t WANT these feelings! I don’t LOVE men, I hate them! HATE THEM! CAN YOU NOT SEE THE PURITY OF MY HATE!?”
guess i’ll try to riff on a favorite part of the post from the other commenters
“I doubt the motives and sincerity of male friends all the time, simply because they’re male. And you know, that idea isn’t new. It’s one that was drilled into my head way before I knew the word “feminism.”
from my POV they (they being those in power etc) drill the opposite into the heads of young men (although I’m not in that category anymore but once was)
Divide and conquer.
It’s worked for 1000’s of years.
On a side note off to SDCC tomorrow but will be working os no cool panels for me!
Hating men is not a part of feminism, just like hating whites is not a part of being nonracist. Who are you directing this ‘men are not the enemy’ sentiment to? Who on EARTH thinks that individual men deliberately conspire to opress women? Strawfeminists?
Jess — read the link in my comment. Some women DO cop to hating men as if it were a part of their feminism. When I was more radical, I had friends who would defend women who DID hate men, on the theory that they had been hurt and deserved to be able to be angry, even if their anger reached a hatred-pitch, because women’s anger has been suppressed and silenced.
So yes, a small minority of feminists DO think it can be a part of some people’s feminism to actively hate men.
Not everything I write is “directed” at someone.
Since it’s 3:19 AM, I’m not going to go wade through the mountain of comments at Twisty’s to remember who it was over there that said something along the lines of “If men like it, it’s a pretty good indication that it’s not feminist.”
sentiment which kind of implies that 1. men are a monolith and all like the same things, and 2. that everything we do should be concerned with whether or not men like it.
but that wasn’t really my entire point of the post. some of it was shit that goes on in my own head–like I said, the tendency to distrust men simply because they’re men, especially with emotional issues, is something I’m having a slight problem with right now, in my personal life.
Thanks for a well written and thoughtful post. I like the radfem attitudes, which I don’t think require hatred of men, as you said.